I am wondering about a few games that are not mentioned in this site and whether they are considered official games or not...
First there are the series of games made by Jesse Petrilla:
Plunder and Pillage Quest for Alq'aeda Quest for Hussein
First off, if these games are not considered official based purely on the ignorant nature of the content of the latter two titles, I would certainly understand this... I do think that Jesse had an alright idea with the pirate theme in Pillage and Plunder though. If he has been shunned by the Build community for his other titles then this is deservedly so.
Did he actually license the engine to create these games? If he did then perhaps they should be considered official games. I do wonder however as I noticed that the cheat codes used in these games do still start with the Duke prefixes of 'DN' (ie: DNKROZ).
But this alone may not mean that he didn't license the engine... Extreme PaintBrawl was a licensed game, and all of the Duke 3D cheats are still in this game verbatim (agian ie: DNKROZ).
So the ultimate question is as to whether the engine had been licensed to produce these games. Does anyone here happen to know?
I'd like to know where these titles sit officially as I like to collect build games, but only official ones (never been much interested in a TC that isn't backed by an actual company with development staff, a publishing company, etc.).
My second question is about the Japanese version of Powerslave (Seireki 1999: Pharaoh no Fukkatsu).
I emailed Jonathan about this title yesterday (thanks for the quick reply btw.)... What he had to say is pretty much no different than anything I've ever been able to find on this title, which is just that he had read of is existance.
I've searched for years but have never been able to conclusively find any proof that this title exists for the PC market. I have found plenty of reference to the Sega Saturn and the Playstation, but I have yet to find anything difinitive on a PC version.
I do remember years ago reading on the BMG Interactive UK web page about Exhumed, and it did mention 1999, but there were no links to additional information and searches at BMG Interactive Japan always came up empty handed.
Just wondering if there is anyone out there that has any indisputable proof that this title actually does exist for the PC. If it does, and if anyone knows of somebody that has this title, I would like to hear from them if they are willing to sell their original CD.
JustAnotherBuildFan at
Re: List of Official (Released or not) Build Games
Oh... one more thing that I've always wondered about.
It is known that when Accend Inc. was working on Rock'n Shaolin: Legend of Seven Paladins 3D, that they were also going to produce another title using the Build game engine.
In one of the two versions of L7P that I have, as soon as you step off the subway train, if you go into the first door on your left you are presented with a slide show of games that Accend was working on.
The first four images depict two different games ('Devil from Hell 3D', and 'Without End 3D') and might be using the Build engine. Would either of these titles or the screenshots help jog anyone's memory as to whether one of these (or maybe even both?) are referring to the long lost title that Accend was going to use the Build engine to create?
Unfortunately, I don't know what the text in the screen shots say as I do not speak Mandarin.
Does anyone happen to know anything about this company and their relation to Duke Nukem 3D? Was this originally going to be the publisher, or did they have something to do with the development at all?
Awesoken at
'IronCore Software' was a company name invented by Allen Blum and/or Todd Replogle. They were never too serious about forming their own company. They made a logo and fantasized a little, but that's all. There was no need to form a company within a company.
I can also answer your question about Jesse Petrilla. He somehow found the home phone numbers to Scott Miller and myself. He told me that Scott would allow it if I did too. Whether he lied or not, it doesn't really matter. This happened in 2001 or 2002, when Build was pretty much dead anyway. Jesse never had the Duke source. He basically modified text strings in a hex editor.
JustAnotherBuildFan at
Awesoken said at
'IronCore Software' was a company name invented by Allen Blum and/or Todd Replogle. They were never too serious about forming their own company. They made a logo and fantasized a little, but that's all. There was no need to form a company within a company.
:) Thanks for the answer to this trivia question that I've always wondered about! I had never considered asking this question in any forums befoe, but I had looked high and low on the Internet and never could find anything. I'm surprised this was never mentioned in any of those Duke3D, Apogee, or 3D Realms FAQ's that are posted all over the place.
Awesoken said at
I can also answer your question about Jesse Petrilla. He somehow found the home phone numbers to Scott Miller and myself. He told me that Scott would allow it if I did too. Whether he lied or not, it doesn't really matter. This happened in 2001 or 2002, when Build was pretty much dead anyway. Jesse never had the Duke source. He basically modified text strings in a hex editor.
:-\ Hmmmm... dilemas, dilemas... So he sort of had permission in a sense, but there is a possibilty that dishonesty could have been involved, he never actually held any contracts in writing nor did he hold the source code, and he hacked his changes with a HEX editor. Sounds more like a TC/mod if you ask me; I think I'll delete them (Pirates was an interesting theme but not a great game 'developmentally' (<- Loosely phrased). I don't like the other two titles at all and never play them anyways so they will not be missed.
Now it would just be interesting to know if there are any readers of this forum from Taiwan and Japan that might have some insight into the questions about Accend Inc. and 1999.
JustAnotherBuildFan at
I spent some time today attempting to research the 'Seireki 1999: Pharaoh no Fukkatsu' title further. More than ever I am quite convinced that this title is not a true Build game.
I performed my searches using the actual Japanese spelling of the game title (depicted below). As with all prior searches, only Play Station and Sega Saturn matches showed up. One of the most convincing pages that I came across that suggests there is no PC version of this game is the following:
Original URL:http://www5b.biglobe.ne.jp/~moonover/bekkan/create/ex_game-.htm English Translation:http://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&sl=ja&u=http://www5b.biglobe.ne.jp/~moonover/bekkan/create/ex_game-.htm
The page lists Egyptian style games that are (or were) available in Japan. For each title, it also indicates what system platforms the game is available on; other games on this page refer to PC, Game Boy Advance, Play Station, and Sega Saturn. 'Seireki 1999: Pharaoh no Fukkatsu' (Revival of western calendar 1999 pharaoh) is only listed as being available on the Sega Saturn and the Play Station.
Unless I am mistaken, I do not believe that Lobotomy used a port of the Build engine when they developed their Sega Saturn and Play Station versions of Powerslave... I'm pretty sure that I had once read that they used a different game engine altogether (I don't recall the name of the engine they used however). This implies that 'Seireki 1999: Pharaoh no Fukkatsu' "is based on", or "is a copy of" a build game, but it should not be considered a true Build game as it is using a different game engine.
Here is a break down of the search criteria I had used and how it translates back into English:
http://home.golden.net/~dwtietz/.hidden/1999.gif
I have to wonder if part of the confusion that had led to the belief that there was/is a Japanese version of this game (specifically using the Build engine) came from the translation of the title. '1999: Return of the Pharaoh' is very close to one of the early working titles of 'Poweslave' when it was called 'Ruins - Return of the Gods' - albeit, this is purely speculation. Here are two very early screen shots from Apogee showing the early working title in the lower left of the images:
http://home.golden.net/~dwtietz/.hidden/Ruins.gif
JustAnotherBuildFan at
Heh... it seems that most people don't have much to contribute in this thread (which is unfortunate), but it appears to be a somewhat popular item to read so I'm adding a new entry. :)
It only took me 9 years to find a copy of Deer Stalker, but it arrived in the mail today!
Deer Stalker is really just Redneck Deer Huntin' sold under an alternate title in Europe (mostly Germany I think, but the manual is in English, French, and German).
Only a few more hard to find items left to complete my Build game collection... previously unearthed alphas and betas of any games would be cool and fun to poke around too - it would be nice to see the developers or the owners of the rights to the original games release more of their developmental versions.
nullpoint at
Hey buildfan! I've been following your thread closely, but just recently registered so I could reply. Very interesting findings you have about build games! What items are you missing from your collection? Do you have Extreme Päintbrawl and nam? Those werent very good games, as everyone here knows, and nam was more of a duke TC than a full game, but they should be included in your collection nonetheless. Whenever discussion of the build games arise in here, occasionally so does the question of the build games' source code. I'd love to see a powerslave or redneck rampage source code release. That'd be great!
TX at
Paintbrawl was pretty much a Duke TC as well... I wonder how much it cost them to license the Duke source code in order to make that piece of garbage? Probably more than they ever made selling it. As you mentioned, something that always amused me about Paintbrawl was how you could use most of the Duke3D cheat codes in it and get completely fucked off results: for instance, DNSTUFF followed by the nightvision key = hilarious palette fuckery, because they either changed the palette and didn't update the alternates found in lookup.dat or they changed the palette and removed the alternates altogether.
Edited by TX at
Maren at
TX said at
Paintbrawl was pretty much a Duke TC as well... I wonder how much it cost them to license the Duke source code in order to make that piece of garbage?
Ever since my first (and very disappointing) experience with this game, I've never felt inclined enough to give it a second ago, but as you suggest, it totally looked like something one could have accomplished by simple modding, though they would have had to pay in order to sell it anyways. Reminds me of what Banjo Software once did. Mediocre losers ;D
nullpoint at
From what I read on an article about Paintbrawl, is that it's lead programmer, Carlos Cuello or something like that, said that the publisher, Headgames, pressured them into writing the entire game in 2 weeks. That's right, only 2 weeks. And that's why the game turned out to be so poorly written.
JustAnotherBuildFan at
What I would really like to add to my collection at this time is the following:
Duke Nukem 3D 1.2 - the PC version that had leaked for a short spell (And 'No'... I am not asking anyone to post any links to this here. While I admit that I do enjoy playing pre-release versions of games, I do respect rules of anti-piracy in public forums so please do not speculate that I am asking anyone to post warez, because I am not.)
PC Gamer UK, Issue 33, August 1996 and PC Power UK, Issue 31, July 1996 cover CDs. These disks contain the only known demo/shareware versions of Whitchaven II ever released.
The UK release of Shadow Warrior that had darts instead of shurikens.
Any prototype, alpha, or beta versions of any of the games... even if they are in a horrible state of broken-ness (see my note above for Duke... same applies here). These are often my favorite ones as I like to play the games at each stage of development and seeing what stayed and what went, Some times you see sprites that say 'Delete Me' all over the place and you have to use no clipping to get around the maps as some of the doors were never fully implemented). Its this crazy kind of stuff that I find to be the most fun.
Excluding duplicate copies of CDs (due to multiple purchases such as 'East Meets West', Kill-a-ton', and original game CDs), addon packs and other game related CDs, my museum of Build games consists of the following number of unique versions for each major title:
There are 59 commercially produced CDs in my set as well as a ton of web based downloads. I also have archived reproductions of several websites for some of the developers from wa-a-a-a-a-y back (3D realms, Q Studios, Head Games, Intracorp, and Todd Duane's AOL page - the person that created that disturbing sound track for the PaintBrawl CD... has anyone ever listened to that and not peed their pants from laughing so hard?!?!?!)
Edited by JustAnotherBuildFan at
Maren at
Do you by any chance know if there's any difference between the Shadow Warrior package distributed a decade ago and the one you can purchase from 3DR today?. TEN and Concentric Network died long ago, but I wonder if they're still part of the CD.
JustAnotherBuildFan at
Maren said at
Do you by any chance know if there's any difference between the Shadow Warrior package distributed a decade ago and the one you can purchase from 3DR today?. TEN and Concentric Network died long ago, but I wonder if they're still part of the CD.
Hmmm... Interesting question. I don't know. All my CD's are the originals, store bought in the 90's. I don't know if they would have ever bothered to change the image over time even though those services are now defunct.
If I had to guess I would think they likely haven't changed it - basically, why bother? But I can't really say for sure.
Maren at
JustAnotherBuildFan said at
basically, why bother?
Ignorant people who could attempt to use these programs?, having them removed would potentially save the support staff a couple of minutes a year ;D
nullpoint at
JustAnotherBuildFan said at
What I would really like to add to my collection at this time is the following:
Duke Nukem 3D 1.2 - the PC version that had leaked for a short spell (And 'No'... I am not asking anyone to post any links to this here. While I admit that I do enjoy playing pre-release versions of games, I do respect rules of anti-piracy in public forums so please do not speculate that I am asking anyone to post warez, because I am not.)
PC Gamer UK, Issue 33, August 1996 and PC Power UK, Issue 31, July 1996 cover CDs. These disks contain the only known demo/shareware versions of Whitchaven II ever released.
The UK release of Shadow Warrior that had darts instead of shurikens.
Any prototype, alpha, or beta versions of any of the games... even if they are in a horrible state of broken-ness (see my note above for Duke... same applies here). These are often my favorite ones as I like to play the games at each stage of development and seeing what stayed and what went, Some times you see sprites that say 'Delete Me' all over the place and you have to use no clipping to get around the maps as some of the doors were never fully implemented). Its this crazy kind of stuff that I find to be the most fun.
Excluding duplicate copies of CDs (due to multiple purchases such as 'East Meets West', Kill-a-ton', and original game CDs), addon packs and other game related CDs, my museum of Build games consists of the following number of unique versions for each major title:
There are 59 commercially produced CDs in my set as well as a ton of web based downloads. I also have archived reproductions of several websites for some of the developers from wa-a-a-a-a-y back (3D realms, Q Studios, Head Games, Intracorp, and Todd Duane's AOL page - the person that created that disturbing sound track for the PaintBrawl CD... has anyone ever listened to that and not peed their pants from laughing so hard?!?!?!)
wow, that's a pretty extensive collection of build games. As to Maren's question, I recently bought the Shadow Warrior CD, and, the only difference seems to be the lack of a game box, since I only received a CD inside a jewel case. Ten networks is even mentioned in the cd booklet. and I have a question myself, is there a legal way of obtaining these games, like nam, or extreme paintbrawl? And dont say ebay, I dont trust ebay.
JustAnotherBuildFan at
nullpoint said at
I have a question myself, is there a legal way of obtaining these games, like nam, or extreme paintbrawl? And dont say ebay, I dont trust ebay.
I'm pretty sure that Duke Nukem 3D Atomic Edition and Shadow Warrior are the only titles that are still sold commercially. eBay would probably be your only viable avenue. I've never been a great fan of eBay but I have purchased a number of my items through eBay and have not encountered any problems. I have had to use eBay to obtain some of the UK and German versions of these games that are not otherwise available in North America. Although I already had 2 Nam CD's, I also used eBay recently to obtain a Napalm CD as well.
0xC0DE at
I don't know where you live, but over here (Netherlands) you can still find those games (such as Redneck Rampage and blood) on computer club days / conventions / expo's. Mostly between 10 and 20 bucks.
nullpoint at
Really? Could you buy those and send them to me? I'll pay for the shipment expenses.
0xC0DE at
well.. I don't visist expo's that much anymore (entree fee got pretty expensive).
I probably visist the gamexpo (http://www.gamexpo.nl/) in 2 months but I don't know if the HCC is present this year (they cover the pc area). if they are, and I can find some of the old games. I will pick them up for you. But I can't promise anything :)
nullpoint at
Cool, thanks man!! :)
0xC0DE at
just bought Witchhaven 2 for only 1 euro! it's from the Kixx collection. It has a rather nice sleeve (a paper folder). includes manual and stuff. there's also a special copyright message for the build engine.
I found it at a toy shop (number 1 toys) in Eindhoven (for dutch people that also wanna buy the game).
nullp0int at
Awesome that you found Witchhaven 2! Did you buy more than one copy of it? I'd understand if you wanna keep the one you bought, but if you found and bought more than one perhaps you could send it to me? ;D
psycho at
http://www.apogeegames.com/beta2.html tons of goodies for you Build freaks you can find lots of neat stuff in there never released to the public :)
oh btw, you guys wouldn't happen to know how to run WW2 GI under Eduke32 would you?
Edited by psycho at
JesseP at
Hey what was wrong with Quest For Al-Qa'eda? ;)
jebleu at
What wasnt wrong with it? It was a total crap game.
JustAnotherBuildFan at
Heh... really old thread. Been almost a year since I've last been here to contribute. It's a pity that the images that I originally had posted in this thread are now gone (hosted web account no longer exists).
Anyways, this seems like the only appropriate message thread to mention this update in... I was just looking through Jono's Build Game pages tonight and saw the link to a shrink wrapped box of Legend of Seven Paladins (http://www.jonof.id.au/index.php?p=build.games&game=l7p). That is sweet! I want it, I want it, I want it!!! Guess I'm gonna have to start scoping out some Chinese E-Bay (or equivalent) sites now. ;D
Unrelated, but I still say that Seireki 1999: Pharaoh no Fukkatsu is not a true Build Engine game.
pixelmaniac at
JesseP said at
Hey what was wrong with Quest For Al-Qa'eda? ;)
:P :P It's so hilarious to find that Jesse Petrilla, the guy who made that hideous Quest for Al-Qaeda game himself posts a question about what was wrong with that game, like a concerced fan. ;D
JustAnotherBuildFan at
I find it kinda sad that anyone should even need to ask what was wrong with that game, but I don't want to go to deep into those murky waters...
I do give Jesse credit for his Plunder and Pillage release however - the pirate theme was well thought out and executed (even though no actual coding was done). He did a fine job of putting a product together with simple hex editor mods in this instance. I won't say the same for the other titles however.
pixelmaniac at
Well, yes, the plunder game was sort of interesting. Good idea of using the pirate theme, not usually seen in fps games. So, heh, you really did start this thread over a year ago?
JustAnotherBuildFan at
pixelmaniac said at
So, heh, you really did start this thread over a year ago?
Yup.
To further support my claim that I don't believe that 1999 should be considered a true Build Engine game, I came across the following interview from the Lead Programmer, Ezra Dreisbach, that worked on developing PowerSlave for the Sega Saturn platform: http://curmudgeongamer.com/article.php?story=20021008212903265
Here are a couple of brief excerpts: Matt: You were the lead programmer on Powerslave for the Saturn by Lobotomy, but also on the team for the Saturn ports of Duke Nukem 3D and Quake. Did those all use the same engine?
Ezra: Yeah, they were all based on the Powerslave Saturn engine. It was on the strength of that engine that we were able to get the contract for Duke Nukem and Quake from Sega.
...
Matt: Powerslave and Duke Nukem 3D on the PC both used Ken Silverman's BUILD engine. Was the engine you designed for the Saturn a port the BUILD engine?
Ezra: Both games were pretty much rebuilt from the ground up. There is no shared code at all.
Those games work very differently from the way that things need to work on the Saturn, so there is really no way to do a port other than to basically remake the game. Doing ports isn't the most financially or personally rewarding work. So there is no way that we would have wanted to do these if we hadn't already known how to make Saturn first person shooters.
As there is no known/confirmed reference to 1999 being available on any other platform than the Sega Saturn, I think its fair to say that this is not a 'true' Build Engine game.
JonoF at
What we need is a Japanese gamer with knowledge from ten years ago to tell us westerners whether the DOS version was published under the title '1999'.
Jonathon
JustAnotherBuildFan at
JonoF said at
What we need is a Japanese gamer with knowledge from ten years ago to tell us westerners whether the DOS version was published under the title '1999'.
I couldn't agree with you more. The relatively recent sealed box of Legend of Seven Paladins found on the Internet certainly provides hope that 1999 as a Build game may still be a reality, but the odds seem kind of slim. Absolute confirmation either way would be most welcoming however.
pixelmaniac at
Thats amazing, a boxed sealed copy of that game!! I want it too! But, hmm, wasnt that game made by a chinese company? Then why would we need a japanese gamer, jonof?
Btw, anyone know the prize of the game in that taiwanese auction site??
pixelmaniac at
damn, according to the page, the item was won, with only 1 bid. :D
JonoF at
pixelmaniac said at
Then why would we need a japanese gamer, jonof?
Because we were talking about Powerslave, which was apparently branded as "1999" in Japan.
pixelmaniac at
Oh, sorry, my stupid mistake. ::)
JustAnotherBuildFan at
pixelmaniac said at
Oh, sorry, my stupid mistake. ::)
No problem... I was just comparing the rarity of Paladins to that of 1999 (which are both pretty darn rare); but yeah, I was actually talking specifically about the game 1999.
euveng at
I am wondering about Plunder and Pillage was it Released as a demo only? and if there is a full release were may I find it?
ConsistentCallsign at
euveng said at
I am wondering about Plunder and Pillage was it Released as a demo only? and if there is a full release were may I find it?
Dunno. The official site is down at the moment :(
Murdering defenseless village people is fun :)
JustAnotherBuildFan at
euveng said at
I am wondering about Plunder and Pillage was it Released as a demo only? and if there is a full release were may I find it?
I don't think that there was any 'full version' to speak of, but I do believe that there was an updated add-on after the initial release that added a bit more to it - it still wasn't much though. I might still have a copy of the update somewhere. If I can find it I'll add a link to share (since this was a freely downloadable file from Jesse P (or someone else that helped work on it).
I'll look around this weekend to see if I still have this anywhere.
-- edit --
No luck... What ever the update was that I vaguely remember finding several years back appears to be gone now. It really wasn't much of anything anyways - it might have been one or two more maps at the most; it certainly wasn't anything spectacular anyways.